Joined in 2023 
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63 About this deal
Not really. I mean, I hear it's an old folk tale, the idea that someone could sell out. It's such a goofy stance. There's so much less money in music [today] that sometimes getting a car commercial is the only way that you're gonna make money. People don't make nearly as much money as they did in the '90s, so I think it was way more prevalent then. But also, who wants someone to just be lonely and be making records in their basement instead of collaborating with a band and touring and making sounds? I feel that way about it. It's lonely to make records by yourself. I hear a joy in the more jammy songs on this album. It's kind of hard for me to believe this album is 20 years old, because in a lot of ways it still sounds very fresh. Do you think it would find an audience if a record like this were released today? At the time this record came out in 2000, some people were kind of miffed that he'd signed to a major label and started making more elaborate arrangements — like it automatically meant he was selling out. We don't talk about those things in quite the same way anymore, and when you listen to a record like Figure 8 now, that narrative kind of falls away. Was it ever on your radar with him? Dreams and grievances, biography and metaphor, truth and fiction—it all swirled together in Smith’s music until every throwaway line seemed like a secret. Smith fans were spooked into lifelong identification because of the purity of that voice, its unmistakable sadness, its seeming simplicity. But the deeper you peered into Smith’s music the more elusive and diaphanous the portrait of “Elliott Smith” became. Behind “Elliott” was, always and forever, Steven Paul Smith, the guy behind the guy behind the guy who had been working out his childhood songwriting visions for a lifetime and arrived at a point in which his ambitions and his talent synced up in one tall, clean line. The “Elliott Smith” of Smith’s solo records was not a person; it was a project. And XO was a testament to how far that project could go.
The nadir came in North Carolina that year, where a severely intoxicated Smith was impaled on a tree during an impulsive attempt on his own life. “I jumped off a cliff,” he told Spin. “But it didn’t work … It wasn’t like I made up my mind to throw myself off a cliff. I got freaked out and started running, it was totally dark, and I ran off the edge of a cliff. I saw it coming up, and it wasn’t like, ‘I’m gonna throw myself off this cliff and die.’ It was just, ‘Ground’s coming up. Who cares, whatever.’” When Either/Or originally came out at a time when grunge was still big, Sugar Ray and Smashmouth were hitting the charts alongside the Spice Girls and the Notorious BIG, but Smith created a subtly devastating album using nothing but pretty guitar chords, carefully crafted chamber-pop arrangements and intimate lyrics. The album has made a lasting impression on musicians and music fans across all genres – even Frank Ocean mentioned Smith’s influence in the liner notes to Blonde – and his fanbase continues to grow. Shortly after the release of his fifth studio album, Figure 8 — the last record he'd finish in his lifetime — Elliott Smith told a Boston Herald writer why he was so drawn to that titular image. "I liked the idea of a self-contained, endless pursuit of perfection," he said. "But I have a problem with perfection. I don't think perfection is very artful. But there's something I liked about the image of a skater going in a twisted circle that doesn't have any real endpoint. So the object is not to stop or arrive anywhere; it's just to make this thing as beautiful as they can."
For his part, Lash, Smith’s friend and former Heatmiser bandmate, doesn’t think it’s possible to really know Smith through his music. “I think people ascribe more autobiographical content than is really there. There was a lot more to him and his personality than what he put into his songs,” said Lash, who thinks the biggest misconception about Smith is that he went through life gloomy and heartbroken. “His awesome sense of humor doesn’t come through in his music and it was a very important part of his personality,” he said. “Just taking his music would give people a pretty skewed, narrow sense of who he was.” Whether or not you can ever know an artist through his music isn’t nearly as important as if the songs speak to you – if they can help you through a broken heart, or inspire you to call the person you like, or even to finish your workout at the gym. Music transcends the artist’s biography or even intent, which is part of the reason people don’t mind mondegreens, because mishearing lyrics almost doesn’t matter if you love a song. To crib from Smith himself, new fans may never know him now, but they’re going to love him anyhow. Oh yeah. It was actually really close to my house when I was first living by myself. I would go to it for his birthday, and then I would go across the street to Garage Pizza and have a slice of pizza. I met a couple weirdos like that. But yeah, I've been many times and was very, very upset when they cut a f****** hole into it. I get it why some Elliott fans hate it, because it's just a place where he took a photo. But it's like, where else? Are we supposed to stand outside of his f****** house? I like it as a thing. I like that people keep writing on it. I liked the year they turned it into all paper — it was a bunch of little Post-Its. That was really cool.
In the wake of the Oscars, Smith signed with DreamWorks Records, but Schnapf feels the press and radio “game” that ensued played further on Smith’s insecurities. “It’s a double-edged sword of wanting to do what’s being asked of you and really hating what’s being asked of you and not being good at it, in that he’s real, he’s not a bulls*** artist.” Totally — maybe even more than XO , this is the record of his that I associate with inventive production choices just as much as I do great songwriting. From a production standpoint, are there elements on this record that have inspired your own music directly? I think I'm one of those people you're describing: That's not a record that I've spent much time with, and maybe I was just too upset. It can be intense to go down certain rabbit holes with him. But Figure 8 is a record I don't consider as dark — it has its moments, but by and large it feels more like an exploration of his pop sensibility. When did you first encounter that one, and how did you make sense of it within the rest of his catalog? While he has clearly influenced music supervisors, it’s hard to underestimate the extent of Smith’s influence on musicians themselves. Smith’s music continues to affect people and shape musicians’ output. “I’m still surprised when I hear post-Elliott Smith things, like wow he really influenced a lot of people,” said Tony Lash, a high school friend and former bandmate of Smith’s. “What makes Elliott’s music so interesting is its attention to detail – in the lyrics, in the composition and in the production,” says Sadie Dupuis, from Speedy Ortiz and Sad13. “He had an uncanny ability to pepper introspective emotional observations with visual, evocative props.” That's perhaps the greatest comparison Smith could have received. His adoration of the Fab Four bookended his life and career: He once claimed that the first record to ignite his desire to be a musician, when he was just 5 years old, was the ambitious and playfully eclectic White Album. ("It was pretty much my inspiration, that and AC/DC," he said in an interview the month before Figure 8 was released.) Much later, in those troubled days of 2003, the final song he ever played live was a cover of the haunting White Album cut "Long, Long, Long." That a young talent like Bridgers would call him her hero — and mention him in the same breath as his heroes — evokes that Autumn de Wilde image on the cover of his magnificent 2000 album. Maybe he never got to see that colorful continuum of music that snakes out behind him. But plenty of us can still hear it.Phoebe Bridgers: I was in eighth grade. My friend Carla Azar showed me " Kiwi Mad Dog 20/20," which is on Roman Candle. It's a super weird one to start with because it's instrumental. Later, another friend showed me " Waltz #2," which became, and maybe still is, my favorite song of his — I think it just exemplifies his writing. Then I went super deep.
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